Comments on: Five Problems That Are Killing the “Faith in the Workplace” Movement

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 17:09:38 +0000

This is a fascinating discussion and I’m really glad I stumbled on it because at our church we are exploring similar ideas. What I’ve observed over years of experience is that people don’t really understand God’s heart for the marketplace to begin with. Instead we just view co-workers as godless souls waiting on an assembly line of transformation, executed through cheesy Bible studies and irrelevant antics. However by taking the time to truly understand God’s heart for the marketplace and why it matters to the kingdom of heaven we really begin realize what it means and how to be effective as Christians in the marketplace.

(We’re exploring that very concept at http://www.greaterseas.com, if you’re not offended by my shameless plug)

By: Michele Corbett

Michele Corbett — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:45:46 +0000

Thanks Bradley. One of the things I’m thinking about in terms of impact is, for example, along the lines of how can we identify corrupt and unjust systems within our area of work, imagine what it would look like if that area were restored as it would be in Heaven, and then seek meaningful ways to engage in that issue. I think a person who is doing this well in his industry is Sam over at New Breed of Advertisers. Within his world, he is questioning assumptions and providing ideas for a better way.

Hadn’t thought in terms of the Kingdom already being there. I would not necessarily disagree, but I do think that it is also brought through Christ in us (may not be saying this in some officially theologically correct way). I think it’s probably two perspectives that work in tandem.

And as for not preaching to the choir, I’m with you. A lot of people who might not like a normal church have been attracted to my church because we have a ministry that cares about something they care about and devote a lot of time to – work. It’s something we can connect on. We have attracted non-Christians to the ministry because they see the value in a biblical perspective even if they don’t agree with the foundation.

And as for Andrew’s point, it’s a good one. We had an experience at my work (a Christian university) where we hired a consultant who is not religious. After working with us for 18 months, he has been changed by us and he does not even know why. He wants to work with us, to promote us, to see us be successful b/c he saw something different. And we have never even brought in a worship band to our meetings.

By: shrinkingthecamel

shrinkingthecamel — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:58:19 +0000

Michelle- Thanks for your honest response here. A couple thoughts:

You mention your vision of “bringing the kingdom to the marketplace.” Well, I have a friend who keeps telling me “We don’t have to bring it to the marketplace, the Kingdom is already there!” We just have to tap in to it through the Holy Spirit and get in the groove. So that speaks to your point about “preaching to the choir.”

However, my issue with preaching to the choir is that Christians have so much cuddling and prodding and nursing resources… I just believe the whole Faith and Work thing needs to be re-positioned so that it addresses the other spiritual beings in the marketplace who have the same needs, but don’t necessarily identify with Evangelical Christianity.

And lastly, to your point about how to have the biggest impact… Well, guess what? I would go back to Andrew’s comment above and say the biggest impact for Christ is us doing our jobs with excellence and pleasure, in a way that enriches the lives of those around us. What’s wrong with that? Why do we as Christians always think that “having a big impact” has to involve an alter call and a praise and worship band playing in the background?

By: Michele Corbett

Michele Corbett — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:27:49 +0000

So as the director of the FAITH and WORK Ministry at my church, I sure feel like crap. Just kidding. I guess I can blame the former director for the name, but I do know she tried long and hard to come up with a more creative name. She’s a national brand consultant for goodness sake. But, alas, the concept seems so foreign to the church that we just went with something simple so people would get it in the beginning. I have honestly always cringed at the name myself, but as a wise professor in grad school once said, “You can’t complain about an issue if you are not willing to provide an alternative solution.”

This is an awesome post, Bradley. And very timely for me.

I’m struggling with the same issues you have so eloquently stated here, and I don’t know the next step yet. The vision or our ministry is to transform people, their work, and the workplaces of San Diego by bringing the hope of redemption and renewal that comes through the Gospel to the marketplace. It’s not about evangelism. It’s about bringing the Kingdom to the marketplace. How we get in there and really have a transformational influence is a bit fuzzy for me. We have events, small groups, vocares (conversations on calling), etc., but what are the things we can be doing to make the biggest impact? I began to hate grad school in the end b/c all we did at conferences was theorize about the minutia of some really important social issue like poverty and it drove me crazy. There was no action, just talk.

I don’t necessarily agree that we are preaching to the choir. I don’t think a lot of the “choir” really gets it yet. And when they do get it philosophically, they still don’t know how to actually incorporate it into their lives practically. How do we get in there deep and actually change lives and transform the marketplace?

So I don’t have any good answers to your issues. Can you figure it all out and let me know. Thanks!

By: Andrew Turner

Andrew Turner — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 17:21:14 +0000

Thanks eh? ‘Tis an honour.

mahout.wordpress.com

By: shrinkingthecamel

shrinkingthecamel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:16:11 +0000

Yes, I like “compassionate leadership.” I haven’t heard that before and it does capture the essence of putting people over profits. And the word “compassionate” does not have a lot of negative/religious baggage with it… Good thinking, LL!

By: shrinkingthecamel

shrinkingthecamel — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:14:20 +0000

Andrew – This is a very thoughtful response, and a fantastic addition to the content here. I especially like your final point – “the experience is a gift and meant for our pleasure and God’s glory” – Well, that kind of sums it all up, now, doesn’t it? Excellent. I’m going to make everyone come back and read this.

By: Anne Lang Bundy

Anne Lang Bundy — Thu, 07 Jan 2010 02:41:00 +0000

There is no separation between faith and vocation but rather the outworking of faith in life.

Bravo, Mr. Turner. Well said!

By: Andrew Turner

Andrew Turner — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 23:32:54 +0000

What a great post! Just making the post-holiday reading rounds.

I read the memoirs of General Bernard Montgomery, 1st Viscount of Alamein, who guided the British to victory in North Africa. The man, among other things, was an extremely strong and practical Christian. In addition to Christ, who demonstrated perfect “faith at work,” I think we have accessible wisdom and it’s even reasonably easy to distill.

1) Christ and Montgomery both knew and acted on the substance that God is in control and we are not. We do what we are told, and the Lord controls the outcome. In Christ’s life, this meant sleeping through a storm. In Montgomery’s life, this meant going to bed promptly at 9 p.m. even under heavy shell fire.

2) “Faith at Work” is a non-issue in my opinion and would be backed by Christ in His actions and Montgomery whom I believe expressly mentions it. There is no separation between faith and vocation but rather the outworking of faith in life; life is work and work is generally vocation, therefore it would stand that what stands in life stands at work. The Bible says plenty about slaves and masters and indeed all of the relationships of life, stretching from “don’t badmouth the boss” to such intricacies as not sleeping with the boss’s wife and the boss paying proper wages.

3) It has been my experience that Christianese exists proportionate to the lack of vibrant spiritual life of the participants. While I think this is a deeper issue then can fit on response post, it would bear considering that a dead faith in religion and especially Christianity is distinctly unappealing. Christ cooked fish on the beach and tossed away the trash fish and didn’t succumb to a sermon on trash fish conservation and that attention to the living details of real life marked His work.

4) The business world labors under the delusion that it’s somehow special and unique and more than. It’s not. The rest of the world laughs at us because they can see it and we can’t. This ties in with my first and second comments. Looking at a vocation as the end-all be-all of existence bogs a person down in minutia in a similar manner as the bride-to-be obsessing over the wedding, when the reality is that the experience is a gift and meant for our pleasure and God’s glory.

Cheers!

mahout.wordpress.com

By: L.L. Barkat

L.L. Barkat — Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:25:17 +0000

I need to come back later and finish the post and read all the comments. But, on the road today, I was musing about the phrase “compassionate leadership.”

Not as a great marketing phrase, but as a concept. Because I was daydreaming about what I think good leaders (and that includes their spiritual lives) look like/do on very practical levels.

I’m all for new terminology. And deep thinking, and excellent strategies.